Sin Unplugged - mystery solved

[Blue]

Dont care how of tune it was. If they played it, and it is in fact taped, we might as well have it!

It would be neat to hear. I do wonder if maybe they don't actually have it, though. Robert was the on working one the archival material, not Dean. It's interesting that Robert says they don't have it, but Dean does... My guess is it's deleted from the master tapes, but the DeLeos have a lower quality tape of the entire performance including Sin. Maybe a pre-mix version before the song was deemed unusable?

With STP there is always so much contradictory information. Maybe some mysteries aren't meant to be solved.

Perhaps whoever he spoke to lied, as it seems unlikely they would forget playing a horribly out of tune version of Sin that ended up being scrubbed.

Doubt they lied about it. It's not their band, it's not their song, and it's a one off show they played a quarter century ago. It is entirely possible they completely forgot they played it since they never saw a recording of it afterward.

I didn't mean the Tubbs brothers lied, I meant that maybe he didn't speak directly to the Tubbs brothers.

I'll have to dig up the interview to see if he spoke directly... But I still don't see the benefit of lying, even if it was by a go-between. Much more likely they simply forgot.

[Tyrant]

I spoke with Lonnie Tubbs in 2012, asked him about the gig and if the rumor that the recording of Sin was damaged is true. He told me he doesn't remember doing the song at all. I then sent him the setlist and he replied that No Memory and Sin are the only songs he doesn't remember doing and that he never heard of any tape errors occurring the night of the recording or finding them after the recording and that he thinks it is just a rumor. I asked him to also ask Shawn and after a few days he told me he asked him and that he doesn't remember Sin or No Memory being played that night either.

[IMJ]

I've had some in depth discussions over the years about this with a few different sources.  I've been told repeatedly that there was a recording problem and that the original tapes were mashed up and twisted during recording of this track, and were unusable.

Now after hearing this, I'm betting that they played the cut, the guitar was so out of tune that it was the guitar equivalent of the Weiland Vasoline fiasco (where he was saying that he wasn't high but his ears were out and couldn't sing).  Rather than look unprofessional at the time, the STP camp at large let out that the recording was damaged and unusable, as opposed to placing a performance problem on their bread and butter. 

Now, with time behind them, the DeLeo's don't care as much about the ego component and tell the story as it was.  Or, more likely they never weaved the story in the first place, but someone in their camp did to protect the integrity of STP as a whole considering how, at the time, MTV Unplugged was the "artsy" and "validating" show of the era.

The Sin conspiracy.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

[Blue]

Is it possible just the tape track recording Dean's guitar for Sin got loaded improperly, resulting in the guitar sounding out of tune? That would explain why Dean never asked to retune the guitar, since it wasn't out of tune in the first place.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

Not really. It would be neat to hear, but if it sounds as bad as they say it would be more of a disappointment than anything. Would anyone honestly listen to it more than once?

It's like if we found out there was a take when they were recording Creep where Dean farted loudly and they had to start over... Yeah, it would be funny to listen to once, but it doesn't make or break the set.

[Five Star Edge]

Even if his guitar was out of tune, I would have loved to hear how they arranged Sin for the unplugged/acoustic format. 

[IMJ]

Is it possible just the tape track recording Dean's guitar for Sin got loaded improperly, resulting in the guitar sounding out of tune? That would explain why Dean never asked to retune the guitar, since it wasn't out of tune in the first place.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

Not really. It would be neat to hear, but if it sounds as bad as they say it would be more of a disappointment than anything. Would anyone honestly listen to it more than once?

It's like if we found out there was a take when they were recording Creep where Dean farted loudly and they had to start over... Yeah, it would be funny to listen to once, but it doesn't make or break the set.

Man they included a track of Weiland haphazardly putting together samples of Piece Of Pie! I think it's an incredibly cool track - I'm not criticizing it, but I'm just saying that it's hardly a complete piece with a representative vocal performance. If that's on there, then an out of tune Sin simply to complete the Unplugged set could be as well....

[Blue]

Is it possible just the tape track recording Dean's guitar for Sin got loaded improperly, resulting in the guitar sounding out of tune? That would explain why Dean never asked to retune the guitar, since it wasn't out of tune in the first place.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

Not really. It would be neat to hear, but if it sounds as bad as they say it would be more of a disappointment than anything. Would anyone honestly listen to it more than once?

It's like if we found out there was a take when they were recording Creep where Dean farted loudly and they had to start over... Yeah, it would be funny to listen to once, but it doesn't make or break the set.

Man they included a track of Weiland haphazardly putting together samples of Piece Of Pie! I think it's an incredibly cool track - I'm not criticizing it, but I'm just saying that it's hardly a complete piece with a representative vocal performance. If that's on there, then an out of tune Sin simply to complete the Unplugged set could be as well....

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been cool if they included it as a bonus track or something, but to say it's a "failure of epic proportion" not to include something most people probably would listen to only once is a stretch.

[foou33]

Is it possible just the tape track recording Dean's guitar for Sin got loaded improperly, resulting in the guitar sounding out of tune? That would explain why Dean never asked to retune the guitar, since it wasn't out of tune in the first place.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

Not really. It would be neat to hear, but if it sounds as bad as they say it would be more of a disappointment than anything. Would anyone honestly listen to it more than once?

It's like if we found out there was a take when they were recording Creep where Dean farted loudly and they had to start over... Yeah, it would be funny to listen to once, but it doesn't make or break the set.

Man they included a track of Weiland haphazardly putting together samples of Piece Of Pie! I think it's an incredibly cool track - I'm not criticizing it, but I'm just saying that it's hardly a complete piece with a representative vocal performance. If that's on there, then an out of tune Sin simply to complete the Unplugged set could be as well....

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been cool if they included it as a bonus track or something, but to say it's a "failure of epic proportion" not to include something most people probably would listen to only once is a stretch.

It's a pretty big failure if you ask me. I doubt it sounds as bad as they make it seem. There is also the question of how the song was arranged. I wonder if they played it the same as the album or if it got changed a bit like Wicked Garden and Crackerman.

[lovemachine97]

Eric Clapton’s Unplugged reissue showed that they did multiple takes of songs. MTV Unplugged was never “live,” right? Why not just do it again?

[IMJ]

Is it possible just the tape track recording Dean's guitar for Sin got loaded improperly, resulting in the guitar sounding out of tune? That would explain why Dean never asked to retune the guitar, since it wasn't out of tune in the first place.

Either way, if it exists it's a failure of epic proportions to have not included it with this set after all this time.

Not really. It would be neat to hear, but if it sounds as bad as they say it would be more of a disappointment than anything. Would anyone honestly listen to it more than once?

It's like if we found out there was a take when they were recording Creep where Dean farted loudly and they had to start over... Yeah, it would be funny to listen to once, but it doesn't make or break the set.

Man they included a track of Weiland haphazardly putting together samples of Piece Of Pie! I think it's an incredibly cool track - I'm not criticizing it, but I'm just saying that it's hardly a complete piece with a representative vocal performance. If that's on there, then an out of tune Sin simply to complete the Unplugged set could be as well....

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been cool if they included it as a bonus track or something, but to say it's a "failure of epic proportion" not to include something most people probably would listen to only once is a stretch.

It's a pretty big failure if you ask me. I doubt it sounds as bad as they make it seem. There is also the question of how the song was arranged. I wonder if they played it the same as the album or if it got changed a bit like Wicked Garden and Crackerman.

Yup... and also considering the slow rate at which this band has released material since day one, combined with the fact that it took 25 years to officially release the Unplugged set at all, and lastly in consideration that this was supposed to be as encompassing a Core package as possible, I'd then conclude that not including Sin to complete the setlist in some form or another was definitely epic in it's failing.

[Pingfah]

Well according to the interview snippet Blue posted, Rob never claimed to have Sin. He says he couldn't find it, and then Dean explains why. He says they have it, but it sounds like Rob was the one doing the looking.

You can't include something you don't have.

[foou33]

Eric Clapton’s Unplugged reissue showed that they did multiple takes of songs. MTV Unplugged was never “live,” right? Why not just do it again?

Who knows. I think Blue said that Dean said he thought it was live. I know on Nirvana's Kurt commented that he was going to try a song in a certain key, and that if it didn't work, then they'd do it in a different one. So theirs seemed like a pretty laid back atmosphere.

[loungefly90]

I'm also in the boat of "Why didn't they do it again?" When Layne messed up AIC's "Sludge Factory," they started over and everything sounded great, which is shown on the home video, but not on the Mtv version. If Dean's guitar was so out of tune, then take a minute and tune it. Even if Dean thought it was live, someone should have informed him it was indeed a taping. It is confusing as I'm sure a conversation would have occurred.

[Rik]

Here's the direct quotes from the interview transcribed:

Rob: I couldn't find all of the songs [from Unplugged]... There were... What songs were missing?

Dean: Sin. And it was because, we have it, but the guitar was so out of tune, man. I can't believe we just didn't stop, man, "Can I just tune real quick? I mean we're taping it, right?" But it was unusable, the guitar was just so out of tune. And I was playing a 12 string that was built by the guy we were..." (interviewers phone interrupts them)

Strange that this has become a thing again. A decade or so ago, I spoke to Dean about this and he didn't recall 'Sin' being part of the MTV Unplugged set. Up to that point, the only indication that this song had been part of the set list was a 1995 CD-ROM from MTV that listed the track. It was always my interpretation that it had been on the set list, but was cut from the broadcast, maybe even from post-production altogether. The tape error explanation came from someone who worked at MTV (don't remember when this was, sorry) and who went into the company's archives only to find footage of the songs that we know of, minus Sin.

[Rik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtbUKdMLd7A some footage has been detected.