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Author Topic: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?  (Read 3507 times)

DankoJones

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 03:51:39 PM »











Rock And Roll Is Dead
Lenny Kravitz

LYRICS


You think you're on top of the world
But you know it's really over
Runnin' round with diamond rings
And coke spoons that are overflowin'
Rock an Roll is dead
But all the money in the world
Can't buy you from the place you're going to
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
You can't even sing or play an instrument
So you just scream instead
You're living for an image
So you got five hundred women in your bed

Rock an Roll is dead
But it's real hard to be yourself
When you're living with those demons
In your head
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead
Rock an Roll is dead






Rock n Roll may be dead to the masses, but is alive and well in my heart so fuck Lenny Kravitz on this one.


...Nothing about those lyrics make me think he's at all insinuating rock is dead. In fact, it sounds like a commentary on people who have that mindset and what they say/think. Despite the poor song title, I doubt he meant any harm. You're free to say fuck Lenny and I like your attitude, but you may be misdirecting a bit.

Remember Lenny saying that it's not about the death of the genre but the whole classic rockin roll lifestyle being a.thing of the past
"There's a dusty rose where the promise of love used to be"

Pingfah

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 04:08:36 PM »
The most visible face of rock at the moment is a bunch of millionaire pensioners running around on stage gasping for breath.

It's not rebellious anymore, and younger, more edgy bands have a hell of a time breaking through that perception to reach kids.

I think it'll ebb and flow, but not ever reach the heights it did. It'll never go away though either, it's aggressive, and importantly it's technical to play. People will always want to learn how to be a great musician, and rock is a brilliant genre for honing your abilities as it is so demanding.

NickLorenza

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 07:22:22 PM »
I'm not sure if Pingfah is referring to The Stones, Springsteen, Metallica, Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, or all of the above, but in my opinion the observation is right. Eventually some bands who used to be edgy realize their audiences have grown up, had kids, moved to the burbs, own stocks, have soccer practices to get said kids to, and retirement accounts to manage.  Some of them then tend to start taking the angle that their show is a great place for both the parents and their kids alike. Cobain talked about the importance of a generational gap in music during a Nirvana interview once. I totally understood what he was talking about. That generational gap is what helped keep rock rebellious, helped keep it dangerous. It's just a necessity. Again, rock at its core is intended for the young.  I think that generational gap is kind of blurred at the moment. This leads once again to my great question.... Where do you go when the anti-establishment becomes the establishment? Cobain, unfortunately didn't live long enough to see this.


Sklashboombash raises another excellent point. Yes, kids who were born in 2000, were born into a world where people were using Napster. They don't know the lost joys of record store shopping and finding that one gem that you know isn't easy to find. They also didn't grow up in a world without MP3 players and cell phones. In fact, I bet most don't have many memories of a world before the first IPhone was introduced.



I totally get what you mean about talent development too. It's like bands are expected to be at their pinnacle right out the gate now. Probably because record companies no longer have the resources to invest so much time and cash into an artist for development. They need immediate results these days. As much as I don't like Bono, he is right, they wouldn't have been able to make The Joshua Tree today. Can you imagine if Nirvana had only been given the opportunity to release Bleach? A world where we miss out on Nevermind is unfathomable. If it were today though, yeah, they'd probably be dropped after Bleach.


Today, instead of allowing talent to grow and nurturing them for the long road it's all flash in the pan, fifteen minutes of fam artists like Lorde. When Lorde came out with that "Royals" song right out the gate she was the hottest shit since sliced bread. Everyone seemed to talk her up like she was going to be a legend like Madonna. Even Nirvana had her sing with them at their hall of fame induction in what was supposed to be a "passing the torch" selection of artists they worked with. Where is she now? I never hear anyone talk about her anymore. Maybe she's flipping burgers or more likely putting out more singles that I've never heard of that will just never reach the success of her initial one. I don't mean to pick on Lorde, she is just the first example that comes to mind.












ethelave91

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2018, 02:23:17 AM »
Greta Van Fleet.

foou33

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2018, 03:17:13 AM »

Down-Plush

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2018, 04:45:08 PM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.

Flyingmerpa

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2018, 07:15:15 PM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.
Its like the point made above about Lorde.  They may be capturing hearts now but what happens after their honey moon phase?  Greta really needs to hit it out of the park on their sophomore release.  If they keep trying to milk their cringey zeppelin wanna be look I dont expect much out of them

foou33

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2018, 02:24:04 AM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.
Its like the point made above about Lorde.  They may be capturing hearts now but what happens after their honey moon phase?  Greta really needs to hit it out of the park on their sophomore release.  If they keep trying to milk their cringey zeppelin wanna be look I dont expect much out of them


I Agree with the Lorde comparison, throw Sia in there too. Plus, how many new people are GVF bringing into the rock world? Hopefully they branch out away from their current stuff and do something that's really them. Their newest song I don't mind too much, I just feel like their singer is trying to make his voice sound like Plants on purpose.

Westenn

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2018, 03:39:42 AM »
I’ve been thinking about this question for about two days now. This is my observation on it. Is Rock dead? Will it be on top again? I can go back to 2009 I believe when I first saw Taylor Swift do a couple of songs w/ Def Leppard.  She has been trying ever since then w/ no luck cuz she’s just not built to do that. However, she would be the one to change the sound to accommodate her and call it Rock. If we take Def Leppard, they actually changed what Rock music was w/ the song “Photograph” so in essence we can blame that band for making Rock music Pop Rock. I even read an article w/ Joe Elliott stating he wanted a more Pop Rock sound which stands to reason w/ Taylor Swift is so into them.
You have Lady Gaga who attempted to do something w/ Metallica. Metallica is basically a Pop Metal band. She has that movie coming out, “Star is Born”. She will change music when that movie comes out.
You have Miley Cyrus who attempted to do Nirvana. She did a stint w/ Flaming Lips and have tried to cross over w/ no avail.
You have Gwen Stefani who was cool until she crossed over to hip hop. Then you have American Idol, The Voice, X Factor where they basically dictate what music should sound like and prep all those people into sounding the same, dressing the same, looking the same like some kind of Stepford person. If the music is all the same then they just make money no matter what band you listen to cuz they’re all clones.
You have other women attempting to do Rock Music like Led Zeppelin, that stupid band Evanescence and etc. I also remember seeing Beyonce trying to do some kind of Rock/Metal thing and she just looked ridiculous. I even heard Cobain’s daughter, Francis or whatever sing a little bit and she reminded me of Jewel. So you see a pattern where you are seeing Women attempting to cross over to the Rock scene but it’s not true rock. It’s Pop Rock. I think it was 2016 when I read briefly an article w/ Duff McKagan basically saying men will take a backseat and he sees more women taking over Rock.
As long as you have these Women in the front, it’s only a matter of time when one of them hits the mark, but even Cobain’s kid doesn’t sound Rock to me. It’s just one tiny part of a song so who knows. Either way, Rock is changing to a more mainstream Pop sound. Damn you Def Leppard and 2000 when music changed and hasn’t moved since then.
In conclusion, I can say that our type of Rock is dying but it’s definitely taking a turn to more mainstream Pop w/ a splash of Rock cuz they are “playing” an electric guitar.
And I Got U 2 Paint the Roses on My Grave

Down-Plush

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2018, 04:41:52 PM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.
Its like the point made above about Lorde.  They may be capturing hearts now but what happens after their honey moon phase?  Greta really needs to hit it out of the park on their sophomore release.  If they keep trying to milk their cringey zeppelin wanna be look I dont expect much out of them


I Agree with the Lorde comparison, throw Sia in there too. Plus, how many new people are GVF bringing into the rock world? Hopefully they branch out away from their current stuff and do something that's really them. Their newest song I don't mind too much, I just feel like their singer is trying to make his voice sound like Plants on purpose.
Sia isn't at all an apt comparison, she's been around since the early 00's, making acclaimed records and has also continually had pop chart success since 2011. Not to mention all the writing she's done for people over the years. If she was going to take a nose dive career-wise, it would've been a long time ago. Well beyond the honey moon phase with her.

NickLorenza

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2018, 08:33:11 PM »
Sklashboombash said it best earlier in this thread where it was mentioned that rock music is cyclical and when it comes back it has to come back but at a slightly different angle. (Thus contributing to the generational gap) This is clearly true as late 60's rock artists sound nothing like mid 50's era rock n' roll; and we see rock clearly evolve, spread out, and touch new territory through the 70's, 80's, 90's, etc... We can hear the differences in 70's rock vs 80's new wave and 80's hair metal vs 90's grunge/post grunge. Despite the differences in styles what these all have in common is they are all music created with guitar, bass, drums, and in some cases some kind of keys/synths.


From the 50s through the 90s there were only so many radio stations, only so many tv channels to watch. Therefore people tended to listen to/watch a lot of the same things and could relate based on that. Remember when you went to work/school in the 90s and you stood around in a group of say 10 people and said "did you catch Seinfeld last night?" Chances are most of the others watched the same thing you did simply because there weren't that many tv channels to choose from, even with cable. Now, cable is 700+ channels, and it competes with so much additional content from Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon, YouTube, etc.  In 2018 if you stood in the same group of 10 people and asked if they caught a particular show last night, most likely no one would have seen the same thing.  This is because we have so many choices today.

The same thing applies to music. From the 50's through the 90's, AM and eventually FM radio were a big deal and that's where everyone heard their tunes. Therefore a lot of people liked the same music. You'd hear the tunes, go to the record store to buy the 45 or the album, eventually cassette or cd, and maybe put down a couple bucks to see an artist in concert. The radio was a huge center of the music universe for over 40+ years. All the rock artists being promoted to the masses were found in one place with the radio. Eventually MTV comes along and provides a second place for people to follow these said artists. Again, these media outlets were the center of the rock music universe. With everyone tuning into these said media outlets this is how the older artists sold tons of records and built followings large enough to fill big stadiums. There were fewer artists being pushed to the masses which meant the ones who did make it were exposed to huge numbers of people.

Today it's very different. There's a zillion artists with a zillion different media outlets, all fighting for your attention. With the radio mostly taken out of the equation and an MTV that doesn't play videos there isn't that center of the universe for rock music anymore that there once was. Therefore bands aren't being exposed to people in the numbers they once were. Everyone kind of goes in their own direction. Bands keep you updated on their individual happenings via the internet and it's up to you to keep up with it on your own.


So to sum it up, for almost 50 years, each time rock came back around at a different angle it had that "center of the universe" promoting it to the masses. It hasn't had that in arguably about 15 years now. So is this the reason it hasn't come back? Is it simply because the numbers aren't there? Is it because the exposure it once had no longer exists?


Btw... I had never actually listened to Greta Van Fleet until you guys brought it up yesterday. I can clearly see the intergenerational appeal, but that's simply because they are a contemporary band who are going for the 70's sound and their singer sounds EXACTLY like Robert Plant. Not to be dismissive of their music, but I see them as just a throwback. These guys aren't changing music or bringing back rock. They're satisfying someone's desire for new music from Robert Plant. They sound like a Zeppelin tribute band who decided to write a few of their own tunes. Music is all about what moves you though and if these guys move you then hey, more power to you.


As for Westenn's comment, I think your observation is interesting, but as for women who are trying to rock... some women don't need to try to rock, they just are rock. Donita Sparks IS rock. With the exception of Frances Bean, the women you cited are all pop stars who are trying to break the mold of their created image by piggybacking on established older rock acts. They're no different than say Debbie Gibson or Tiffany. Created pop acts who are cast into a role. Those tv shows you mentioned are the devil of the modern era music industry and definitely do a lot to dumb things down to the lowest common denominator. I am not a fan. I'm interested though, what is it about Lady Gaga's movie that you feel will change music?








foou33

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2018, 08:46:28 PM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.
Its like the point made above about Lorde.  They may be capturing hearts now but what happens after their honey moon phase?  Greta really needs to hit it out of the park on their sophomore release.  If they keep trying to milk their cringey zeppelin wanna be look I dont expect much out of them


I Agree with the Lorde comparison, throw Sia in there too. Plus, how many new people are GVF bringing into the rock world? Hopefully they branch out away from their current stuff and do something that's really them. Their newest song I don't mind too much, I just feel like their singer is trying to make his voice sound like Plants on purpose.
Sia isn't at all an apt comparison, she's been around since the early 00's, making acclaimed records and has also continually had pop chart success since 2011. Not to mention all the writing she's done for people over the years. If she was going to take a nose dive career-wise, it would've been a long time ago. Well beyond the honey moon phase with her.

Sia is a one trick pony if you ask me. Her hits all sound the same.

Down-Plush

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2018, 11:04:35 PM »
Greta Van Fleet.

No.
They've got a point, actually. I'm not a big fan either but regardless of what you or I think of them, they're killing it out there and capturing old and young audiences both.
Its like the point made above about Lorde.  They may be capturing hearts now but what happens after their honey moon phase?  Greta really needs to hit it out of the park on their sophomore release.  If they keep trying to milk their cringey zeppelin wanna be look I dont expect much out of them


I Agree with the Lorde comparison, throw Sia in there too. Plus, how many new people are GVF bringing into the rock world? Hopefully they branch out away from their current stuff and do something that's really them. Their newest song I don't mind too much, I just feel like their singer is trying to make his voice sound like Plants on purpose.
Sia isn't at all an apt comparison, she's been around since the early 00's, making acclaimed records and has also continually had pop chart success since 2011. Not to mention all the writing she's done for people over the years. If she was going to take a nose dive career-wise, it would've been a long time ago. Well beyond the honey moon phase with her.

Sia is a one trick pony if you ask me. Her hits all sound the same.
While I agree, that isn't a measure of her success, which is what I'm talking about. If we're talking about a lack/decrease of artistic integrity, sure, but we're not.


It seems like this thread is about wanting rock to be back on top in terms of sales and popularity, but everyone here is talking about good artistry instead. While the two aren't mutually exclusive, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of coherent (or even realistic) thought going on.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 11:08:29 PM by Down-Plush »

foou33

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2018, 02:01:25 AM »

It seems like this thread is about wanting rock to be back on top in terms of sales and popularity, but everyone here is talking about good artistry instead. While the two aren't mutually exclusive, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of coherent (or even realistic) thought going on.

yeah that's the part i'm hung up on. maybe i'll just have to take the wins where I can get them. part of the problem too is that what's popular right now isn't even good music.

Pingfah

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Re: Will Rock n Roll ever be on top again?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2018, 10:14:26 AM »
It's more than not being mutually exclusive though, they go absolutely hand in hand. Every time rock has had a major surge, it's because somebody came along and broke the mould, be that the creation of heavy metal, hair rock, grunge, whatever. All of which drew on past forms, but also gave us something very new and fresh.

That's yet to happen, most of the modern and new rock bands are rehashing what's gone before without adding a lot to it, IMO. I don't know what the future will look like, i'm not an innovator in rock music, but I do think it'll need to start looking a lot different to how it looks now, before guitar driven music will start selling in large amounts again.